Curse

Gairoh · Sep 06, 2006, 04:57 AM // 04:57

i just realise tht ppl are starting to talk about Shiro again,so lets talk more about Nightfall shall we??

Cynn Evennia · Sep 06, 2006, 06:59 PM // 18:59

The ideas posted here about the Jade Wind are all fascinating, but i suggest to relate it to Nightfall.

I have the feeling that in Nightfall we will meet the puppet master of the Lich and Shiro. The Fortune teller is mysterious enough to make you wonder whether Shiro was being manipulated or not. And the Jade wind skill that Shiro possesses must come from somewhere and someone, but where and who? Several people has pointed out Dhuum as the puppet master, and at my ears it sounds plausible and appealing. Id love that come true, and it seems to be so:

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCFormat, Sept 2006

All the best stories come in a trilogy and now the saga which began with Guild Wars: Prophecies (the full install of which you'll find in on this month's bonus disc), and continued with Factions, comes to a close in Nightfall. That's not to say this is the last chapter of Guild Wars, just the culmination of the Titans/Shiro story arc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

It has been suggested in an article UK PC Format that Prophecies, Factions and Nightfall are a trilogy with Nightfall just the culmination of the Titans/Shiro story arc. The Prophecies and Factions stories are only loosly linked so it is speculated the Nightfall storyline will connect the actions of the protagonists from the previous episodes and that this outcast god may have been the one to cause the Lich Lord (Chapter 1 Antagonist) and Shiro (Chapter 2 Antagonist) to suddenly become evil and powerful. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars_Nightfall

NOTE: quotes borrowed from the thread Rumor Mill: GW: Nightfall is the last of the series?, http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10038493

It would be fantastic for me to have answers from ANET concerning the Mursaats and what happened to all kingdoms after you beat Prophecies. I hope the total lack of information was on purpose in order to keep the door open for further expansion. Nevertheless i find the ambiguity of the ending rather disappointing.

Finally, the Mursaats and the Seer are a total mystery. My question about why Ascension grants you the chance to see the Mursaats is istill in the air; after all Ascension means being in the grace of the gods, so the Mursaats are related to the Gods, but in what manner?

I welcome all comments about this puppet master theory and your ideas of the genesis and lore of Mursaats.

pcredsox99 · Sep 06, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

MY question is: Why did Shiro cause the Jade Wind when he died? What's so special about him? Is it just because he became an Envoy? In that case, we should have 4 other Jade Winds around the world somewhere. If not, then what the heck happened? In the manual, it says that Shiro began to drain the emperor's soul away with his "ill-gotten power." Where did Shiro get this ill-gotten power, and why was he draining the emperor's soul if that's the case? Admittedly, the game has a lot of differences from the manual, but still, why the Jade Wind?

Um if u read in the guide which most have not it says that shiro prepared for the festival by entwining himself with dark magic the Jade Wind was planned incase he died. That is where they were in the 3rd mish at the library that is where he got the books from.
*And so not to be off topic yes i would like to see Nightfall tie up in the end but since the same people that made prohocies are making it i think that it might be a little more open which all in all i dont mind because we all know we like the running capabilities in proph. alot more

Mrscoombes · Sep 06, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

So uh when you're in kryta, supposedly there are musaat around you all the time because you can't see them? How come they dont just kick your ass when they realise you're catching on to their plan/chosen?

Age · Sep 07, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

I would like to know more about Drascir and will we get to go there.The Former Capital of Ascalon.Good Thread Cynn Evennia.

Cynn Evennia · Sep 07, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

I really want to have all loose ends tied up at Nightfall: what are really the Mursaats, the Seer and the Titans, who was controlling the Lich and Shiro, what happened to Tyria after the Titans, and what is the deal with Orr and the scepter.

Please feel free to speculate on that topics i have just mentioned. I am thinking myself on an answer that justifies the Mursaats being related to the Gods, but any idea is welcome.

One last comment. As a PvE player im expecting so much from Nightfall after the vastness of Prophecies and the fast forward pit stop we made in Factions. Please remark i am not a Factions hater, i just found Factions very limited in the PvE section: just 13 missions and an "all vs the bad guy" storyline. But i must confess i love several features of Factions: the new henchies (amazing builds, especially Erys), some of the new skills (particularly the monk elites), the missions where we are 16 vs the world, and Fort Aspenwood.

draxynnic · Sep 08, 2006, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrscoombes

So uh when you're in kryta, supposedly there are musaat around you all the time because you can't see them? How come they dont just kick your ass when they realise you're catching on to their plan/chosen?

Because the Mursaat didn't want to reveal their presence. Even after the PCs defect, most of Kryta still believes the Mantle are the good guys and the Shining Blade are a band of bandits. However, the Mantle would develop a more sinister side should it be seen that the Unseen Gods were acting as their own enforcers (it's one thing to have invisible angel-like beings watching over you and protecting you from the Charr, another to face the possibility that there could be one following you around waiting to execute you at the first slip of the tongue). Fear might have prevented an outright rebellion in this case, but a fearful population is still more difficult to control than a complacent one.

Why the Mursaat step in in the Shiverpeaks is less clear. It could be because they have felt it is time to step in because they somehow felt the ascension of the Chosen. It could be because they didn't want to reveal themselves to the rank-and-file Mantle, but those that entered the mountains had the required 'clearance' to know the truth (it's unclear how much the inner workings of the Mantle are hidden from the lower ranks, but when the PCs are inducted they certainly didn't receive the full disclosure, and they seem determined to hide the presence of Mesmers and Necromancers in their ranks until the proverbial gloves come off*). It could be that they wanted to make sure of the deaths of the leaders of the Blade personally, because they felt the White Mantle needed assistance against the dwarves (on both sides), or even because they simply thought the Shiverpeaks were isolated enough for them to get away with it.

*I personally think the Mantle has at least three levels of 'clearance'. The first is the 'public face' - we don't see the Ritualists or Sycophants, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that Necromancers and Mesmers are distrusted by the average Krytan (whether this distrust is encouraged by the Mantle or simply something they have accepted and taken into account I wouldn't know). The second is when it is revealed that the Mantle does in fact contain those who use these distrusted powers, probably on a kind of 'fight fire with fire' basis. Finally is the stage at which the thoroughly indoctrinated member of the Mantle is introduced to the inner workings - the Mursaat, the sacrifices of the Chosen, and so on.

Gonzo · Sep 08, 2006, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Isn't the point of Ascension (in prophesies) to become stronger so we can face the Mursaat? 50.000 XP (or insta-level 20 as it used to be) does help becoming stronger.

Lady Lozza · Sep 08, 2006, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Meh, Gwen really is the loose end I want tied up. I can accept that Shiro and the Lich were acting on their own, but what the blazes happened to that evil, evil little girl?

Clord · Sep 08, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

It is likely that Fortune Teller's information was manipulated rather than Fortune Teller itself.

Shyft the Pyro · Sep 08, 2006, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I would like to know more about Drascir and will we get to go there.The Former Capital of Ascalon.Good Thread Cynn Evennia.

You've already been there. Replay Ruins of Surmia and pay close attention to the cutscene where you release the last of the captive soldiers. Erol (captive soldier) tells you that more men have been captured and taken further north. Rurik replies with "Then we go to Drascir." The final part of the mission - defending Rurik as he opens the door in the obelisk chamber - is being fought in Drascir. Where else would you have a teleportation device to the Nolani Academy if not in the capital?

I've never really seen Ascension as the ability to "visually perceive" Mursaat. I always understood "Unseen Gods" as a figure of speech rather than a reference to the inability of people to see them. Remember, Saul D'Alessio - the first Krytan to ally himself with the Mursaat, the founder of the White Mantle - would have had to see them in order to bow to them, and he wasn't ascended at all.

The Mursaat are "unseen" gods as opposed to the actual gods who created Tyria and whose avatars can be regularly seen at the shrines. The Mursaat, on the other hand, never come into contact with Krytans until the missions in South Shiverpeaks, and even then only the Shining Blade get to see them (as they're dying). The general population of Kryta deals with the White Mantle and the White Mantle only, and since the White Mantle only "shows" Mursaat to the most devoted (think Scientology or the Vatican archives), to the Krytans at large Mursaat remain the unseen gods of White Mantle.

I strongly hope that Nightfall is not the last game in the "original" Guild Wars, but even one of the NPCs in Temple of Ages says something along the lines of "the gods created other worlds after their Exodus from ours." If Nightfall indeed ends up concluding the Guild Wars "trilogy," I would expect to see the following in terms of the storyline:

1) The Underworld issue resolved. Though Dhuum is referenced directly in only one Underworld quest, "clearing" the Underworld involves destroying things that are presumably there against Grenth's will. Only a rival, outcast god would have enough power to infiltrate the Underworld to the degree that his minions would spill into the Hall of Heroes as they did when the Tomb of the Primeval Kings entrance became unusable. Considering the progression of this invasion - from realms in the Rifts like Underworld and Hall of Heroes to the "real" world during the Dragon Festival - I'd say we'll be fighting these forces as part of the Nightfall storyline.

2) The "endgame" issue resolved. My guess is that ANet wasn't concerned with ending Prophecies the same way they designed Factions to "end" in Divine Path because Prophecies was conceived as a much more open game while the Factions design team was pressured into making a shorter game people could complete in the 6 months before Nightfall was released. The downside, of course, is that there's no clear way to tell when Prophecies ends as the last storyline mission simply deposits players in Droknar's Forge again - though things might have been better if players were made to spawn at Glint's statue during the Titan quests update. Titan quests were a way for the design team to revisit the old, static locations in the game and provide the players with an update, but once again they left players wondering what happened in these areas after player actions. If Nightfall ends up concluding the Guild Wars storyline, I would expect the developers to give players an "update" on the events, even if in the form of a cutscene somewhere at the end of the Nightfall storyline, so that there is a sense of a concrete ending (like in Factions) but applied to the whole storyline. Of course, Factions doesn't really need an update because it was designed as a finite game with a specific and definite ending, but I'd still expect this "update" to appear in Nightfall and apply to all three chapters rather than be introduced into old chapters as new content.

I do NOT expect that we'll learn more about Mursaat or Seers as their "alien" looks make it conceivable we'd encounter them on another world created by the 5 gods - in Chapter 4 if it chooses to focus on another world.

I do NOT expect to learn more about Shiro's "original" death and the Jade Wind as those things are supposed to have happened 200 years prior to Guild Wars events, which might be too far back for the outcast god to be strong enough to touch the actual world - though it's possible, considering the gods left Tyria 1072 years ago (1070 years before the Searing). If we do get a confirmation of the outcast god's involvement I highly doubt it will be more than an afterthought admission along the lines of "Oh yeah, and I did that too."

My guess for the Emperor's presence in Nightfall is that it relates to the way Nightfall will be linked with older chapters. Players will be able to travel directly from Factions to Nightfall without the need to go to Lion's Arch first, and a representative from each chapter in the "port city" would help players find out more about their native land and invite them if they can travel there (have a linked account).

EDIT: Totally forgot to put in my take on ascending since I don't consider it necessary to actually see the Mursaat. My answer is simple: the Flameseeker Prophecies say that the Chosen will only defeat the Mursaat after ascending. The Vizier tells PCs they need to ascend because they're the Chosen who will take down the White Mantle's unseen gods according to the Flameseeker Prophecy - which means the prophecy must be followed to the letter in order to arrive at its completion (death of the Mursaat and defeat of the White Mantle).

The Flameseeker Prophecies are very much self-fulfilling: if you want to defeat the White Mantle, you have to destroy their unseen gods; if you want to destroy their unseen gods, you have to ascend and go to the Ring of Fire and open the Door of Komalie (notice how infusion is totally absent from the prophecy).

Mezmo · Sep 09, 2006, 04:28 AM // 04:28

I wanna know what happened to the staff of orr. If i'm not mistaken in Nightfall some old "Bad" god is trying to return. Perhaps once the location of the staff of orr was discovered, this old god took advantage and stole it away when no one powerful being was using it.

Or perhaps Gwen decided to run away when the char attacked, became the ruler of(insert nightfall contenet name here) and decided to try and become a god so she stoll the staff of orr when the time was right and is even now ploting to become an evil god

.

Shyft the Pyro · Sep 09, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Gwen already is an evil god. I mean, casting 200+ damage spells in town?! See any "end of beta" video to know what I mean

But yes, the Staff of Orr appears to be another loose end. It's possible to assume Glint takes it when her "vision" disappears during the last cutscene of Hell's Precipice, but the "fading out" is not simultaneous. Still, I'd think that an all-knowing prophet like Glint would anticipate the situation and grab hold of the staff so it doesn't get buried under tons of rock... unless the proximity of the Bloodstone has something to do with the staff's disappearance?

Either way, the staff seems to be something exclusive to the Prophecies storyline. We won't encounter it in Nightfall unless we see hordes of undead and titans - and I think it's more likely we'll have to fight the Underworld creatures instead.

AnnaCloud9 · Sep 09, 2006, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Gwen is (was) the fortune teller.

As for her antics at the end of beta...purely entertainment on behalf of ANet to 'celebrate'.

This of course is only my opinion, however it would identify and tie up the loose end, of this enigma of a little girl, named Gwen.

Vermilion Okeanos · Sep 10, 2006, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Both the lich and shiro share a common bond, and that is they are both something related to life and death, or some kind of undead. With envoy connect to the worlds in between, and the lich being a thing that do not die. It is possible that both of them signed a pack with the old god of underworld, as generally underworld is a place where dead people go.

It is possible that the old god wish to posses a strong body, which both shiro and lich somewhat fit the requirement. Being a spirit generally mean that you can't touch worldly things, such as door and gate (remember how ghostly hero got the power to fight, but not opening the gate to HoH?). If you can't touch what you own, then it would be as good as not owning it.

It is also possible that the old god wish to obtain the mortal world for his/her own, while recking havoc in the spirit world especially to the 2 gods that most likely would do something to oppose him; to keep balthazar, the warrior god, and grenth, the old nemesis of dhuum busy. While I doubt Dwayna the god of kindness and freedom, and lyssa the carefree artist would do anything about the war on mortal throne immediately; while I am not sure about melandru as she seem as someone passive, but what happen if the nature are threatened?

One more thing. In the vision of the druid, those bird creature might be referring to the creatures in elona that we see in the nightfall trailer awhile ago. While mursaat seem to be a good guy turned bad, as they were willing to do anything to keep titan locked up, even when it means infinite number of innocent sacrifise. The charr might have obtain the power to destroy ascalon's wall because of dhuum, as that thing they used was really abnormal. (large meteor crystal falling from the sky?)

While I wonder about the role of glint and kunavang, as it seems glint have so much more mystical wisdom from her old age; kuunavang only got power capable of making the chosen powerful enough to take down shiro.

Lawnmower · Sep 10, 2006, 09:37 PM // 21:37

it would be amazing if nightfall closed off the trilogy and tied in all the loose ends. if thats the case, then I hope that nightfall will have a cinematic ending.

I also hope that the story will be good...

then chapter 4 and so on can focus on other events.

then when nightfall is over, the game should have radicaly changed... perhaps the war in tyria could have ended and we could return to seeing green planes as back in pre searing.

some guy · Sep 11, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Basically, ascension means you are worthy to be blessed by the gods of Tyria. Not sure what dose that have to do with Mursaats, but ascension dose have a clear purpose in Factions

Moiax · Sep 11, 2006, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Ascension is also required to be able to enter the realms of the gods btw...